"Let's call my country Sakartvelo!" Conversation with Georgian director Data Tavadze
Tuesday, March 28, 2023
The Georgian theatre director, Data Tavadze, premiered his interpretation of Bertolt Brecht's "Caucasian Chalk Circle" on Friday, March 24th at the esteemed Dailes Theater. Collaborating with composer Nikas Pasuri, stage designer Ketevan Nadibaidzi from Georgia, and Latvian costume designer Kristini Pasternak, Tavadze brought his unique vision to life on stage.
As a well-respected director, Tavadze boasts a long list of accolades, including laureate titles from numerous European theater festivals. With years of experience in both Tbilisi and Germany, Tavadze is no stranger to the stage. In a recent interview with "Kulturzimes," Tavadze spoke about the play.
The premiere at Dailes Theater was undoubtedly a momentous occasion, and Tavadze's interpretation of "Caucasian Chalk Circle" was met with critical acclaim. This is yet another achievement for the talented director, and we look forward to seeing what he has in store for future productions.
- Brecht mentioned the Soviet Union as the place of action of the play. Where will it be in your production?
D. Tavadze: - It's true, Brecht outlines in the prologue that the place of action is the Soviet Union, but we chose the stage as the place of action, so to speak, a stage on a stage. I think that we reproduce Brecht's idea very closely because it is known that he was fascinated by this idea of a stage on a stage. It must be understood that it is not meant as a theater stage, it symbolizes the past and the future, it is like a return to the past or reveals a place where people are stuck in time.
- And the time of action, is it the time of war, as in the play?
- It is the time of civil war. Thinking about history, similar events could have happened in the 18th century in the territory of the Caucasus, but, as is often the case in Brecht's plays, time is conditional. It is possible that the action takes place in the period from the 18th century to the Second World War. If we imagine it in the context of history, often the time span cannot be understood, and events tend to repeat themselves. War is war, the rules of war are similar at all times, and war creates similar stories both today and during the Trojan War. In fact, it is a play about any dark times, in which, however, there are always good and bright people.
- Does the play reveal how it is possible to win the war?
- I am one of those who believe in the joint cooperation of countries, in a joint global decision. But this play does not tell how to win the war, it tells about how to survive - as a humanist, as a human being. In the play, we are dealing with a situation when everything causes the loss of a person's face, but it is still possible to preserve it, to preserve humanity. For a moment when it seems that all choice is gone, but still, a moral decision remains.
We are currently living in a time which, while creating a special evil, also creates a special kindness. I think that we should focus more on this kind of kindness because it is a quality that has been significantly activated.
It often seems that almost everything pushes us into pessimism, depression and that it is easier to give up. But in this play it is not, it is full of optimism and faith in the future. It indicates values worth maintaining and fighting for. I think it is very important to talk about all this right now.
- There have been two wars in Georgia alone during your lifetime...
- In the nineties, there was a civil war in two regions, including the capital, and then the 2008 war with Russia came. Maybe what I'm going to say is something very Georgian, it may be that anyone who has experienced the war could say it - we are a nation of survivors. During the war, people focus on big things, important values. In Brecht's play, war is invisible, just like a specter, like a shadow, but at no point does it depict warfare, its presence is marked by only a few evidence, sometimes we see war scars or fingerprints.
- More about Georgia...
- Please, let's call my country Sakartvelo!
- That was exactly my question - in Latvia we are now naming many Ukrainian cities, we no longer want the names imposed by Russia.
- Tbilisi is Tbilisi, it is a Georgian name, but Gruzija is a name only in Slavic languages. I don't understand why Latvians call us that, but the Latvian language does not belong to the Slavic language family. This name is a remnant of imperialism, Soviet times. Two years ago, Lithuania already made a decision to call my country Sakartvelo, that's what we will call it in the production. I think that this is the first step, and I hope that soon other countries will also call us Sakartvelo, it is very sad that many people in the world do not call us the way we call ourselves, it should be corrected.
- Have you thought about the duty of a creative person in difficult times?
- We must work just like everyone else, be alert, awake, ready to react and support. In such times, you should not stand aside, you should be active, you should get into the middle of problems, you should try to understand and solve them, get involved in the process. Almost everyone now has responsibilities, the most important of which is to be a witness. When a crime happens, something must be done, an active response must be made, the police must be called. He who does nothing stands aside, becomes an accomplice to the crime. Every civilian should be a good citizen, understanding that if we stand still, everyone will stand still.
I think a creative person has a privilege because we have an audience, we are listened to by an audience. There are so many people in our society who do not find even one listener for their thoughts, but here, for example, at the Daile Theater, about a thousand listeners listen to us every night. We have a great responsibility in front of them, we have to tell them the story instead of those who no one listens to. We must stand by the vulnerable, the weak and empower them. This is our responsibility, we spread this message, we are messengers.
We have to see reality with our eyes open and then describe it by showing emotions and symbols. Everything possible must be done to be able to create a language in which to tell the story of these witnesses. It is probably the most difficult, because telling the present is very difficult, especially now when it is so incomprehensible. This is the artist's task - to find this language, a way to tell everything that has been experienced, moreover, language is needed not only for the spoken word but also for the signs of all other senses.
I have a feeling that this show is so special in an above-mentioned way - it tries to connect this place, the Latvian theater, with the rest of the world. This is a time when we all need to stick together, reach out as far as we can, and reach out to all our friends, all people, to prove that no one is left alone. We stand with the Ukrainian people. Someone probably thinks - what can one do, but even small things help those who experience war.
- The recent events in Sakartvelo were so powerful, we admired how you all managed to stand against it together.
- It was a very important moment. There were so many young people, both my generation and younger; they did not budge even an iota from their demands to be one of the western countries. They stood against the clouds of tear and pepper gas, they stood against the water cannons, and they were not afraid of the fact that there, on the streets, they were almost tortured. They stood strong for their faith, it was and still is very inspiring. I think that with that moment the people of Sakartvelo firmly proved their will to be members of the Western world. I believe that the time will come when Sakartvelo will become a member state of the European Union. We currently have a very strange government with double standards, one moment it joins hands with Putin and the next moment it reaches out to the West. Now we, the citizens of Sakartvelo, have said loudly that our government must not have any ties with Russia.
Our government also tried to play neutrality in the issue of the war in Ukraine, and in this case, neutrality is considered treason. Anyone who helps that monster is considered a traitor. We've had strange governments before, but never before have I felt ashamed of them. This time I was so ashamed that I was even ready to leave my country. At the beginning of the Ukrainian war, it was very difficult to live in a country whose government does not express full and genuine support for Ukraine. This was so contrary to the population, whose large numbers, almost half a million, took to the streets to express their support for the Ukrainians; people send all possible help to Ukraine, especially at the beginning of the war, the Ukrainian flag was flying in almost every window. However, it is possible that if our government had fulfilled its duty, the people would not have risen up to help so widely, and in the end, I am proud of that.
- A lot has been heard about how proud Georgians are.
- We are constantly in defense mode, maybe it even makes us prouder than we really are. We must constantly protect our country, language and culture, take care of it like a sick child. Perhaps we would not be so proud if no one stole our land, did not threaten our territory, did not threaten our language, did not humiliate the nation.
Every day we continue to understand and search for what our true culture and identity are. Every new day we try to understand how to get rid of the ghosts of the past - which part of our identity arose as a result of tsarist ideology and Soviet propaganda, and which part is the true, ancient, Georgian part. This process has been ongoing since the collapse of the Soviet Union, and throughout its former territory. What are our real values? You have to stick to your language and culture.
(www.la.lv)
